| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Introducing AI to KudoZ: human expertise and AI combined in support of the most helpful answer Thread poster: Lucia Leszinsky
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| A further comment on the FAQ | Aug 23, 2023 |
Quoting myself:
Elsewhere in the FAQ there is this question:
"If AI technology is available out there and language professionals are using it (in many different ways), why not include it in KudoZ and enable them to realize their full potential?"
On further reflection, the "full potential" reference here makes me wonder whether the person who wrote it has ever completed a proper professional translation.
Speaking only for myself, I use AI (in the form of CafeTran's MT engine) to speed up the generation of a rough first draft. That is very helpful.
However, the part where I realise my "full potential" comes after that, when I take the grubby, misshapen piece of coal the AI has produced and, through a process of careful squeezing, rubbing, cutting and polishing, I turn it into a diamond.
There is currently no AI in the world that is capable of doing that.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:09
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Philip Lees wrote:
..... the "full potential" reference here makes me wonder whether the person who wrote it has ever completed a proper professional translation..
I'm asking myself the same question. AI can only assist the translator at the initial roughing-out stage of a job but it cannot produce a finished translation. I wonder if that same person understands the difference between roughing-out and finishing?
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 00:09
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| I couldn't agree more | Aug 23, 2023 |
Philip Lees wrote:
However, the part where I realise my "full potential" comes after that, when I take the grubby, misshapen piece of coal the AI has produced and, through a process of careful squeezing, rubbing, cutting and polishing, I turn it into a diamond.
There is currently no AI in the world that is capable of doing that.
That's what differentiates humans and machines: a greater degree of precision and accuracy that AI can't provide in translation.
Also, a translation provided by AI with no linguistic and cultural understanding is bound to make errors.
From what I can see of Kudoz now, the answers given by ChatGPT fall far short and are too literal, and are more of a first sketch skeleton that can help us achieve this accuracy.
Machines need us more than we need them...
| | | | | Thank you everyone for posting | Aug 23, 2023 |
I have read every post and I acknowledge the concerns shared by some. The possibility of generating KudoZ answers using AI technology has been thought of as a supporting feature. It has a complementary role, but still optional --you use it or you don’t, your choice.
For those interested in this feature, please feel free to contact me with suggestions for improvement. I see a good number of questions are making use of it, so we will be reviewing prompts in the next few days and app... See more I have read every post and I acknowledge the concerns shared by some. The possibility of generating KudoZ answers using AI technology has been thought of as a supporting feature. It has a complementary role, but still optional --you use it or you don’t, your choice.
For those interested in this feature, please feel free to contact me with suggestions for improvement. I see a good number of questions are making use of it, so we will be reviewing prompts in the next few days and applying updates.
Thanks again!
Lucia
PS (I loved your KudoZ question, @Yuemin Chen! I didn’t know that saying.) ▲ Collapse
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Becca Resnik 
United States
Local time: 19:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
The possibility of generating KudoZ answers using AI technology has been thought of as a supporting feature. It has a complementary role, but still optional --you use it or you don’t, your choice.
The inherent flaws have nothing to do with the feature being optional – I know it is optional and am not fundamentally opposed to people using ChatGPT. The issue is how the feature affects KudoZ as a whole. The selection of incorrect and unnatural answers given by ChatGPT is a serious problem – the asker is (should be) coming to KudoZ because the obvious answer isn't "out there." The problem is even greater because many of these incorrect answers will be added to the glossary. And no response has been made regarding the stark reduction of users' ability to improve their search rankings.
| | | | | Rough diamond | Aug 23, 2023 |
Philip Lees wrote:
However, the part where I realise my "full potential" comes after that, when I take the grubby, misshapen piece of coal the AI has produced and, through a process of careful squeezing, rubbing, cutting and polishing, I turn it into a diamond.
There is currently no AI in the world that is capable of doing that.
Or human. If coal could be turned into diamonds I’d be a millionaire by tea time, sitting here as I am atop a mountain of spoil in the Rhondda…
Would you miss me?
(Totally agree with your point though!)
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Becca Resnik wrote:
The issue is how the feature affects KudoZ as a whole. The selection of incorrect and unnatural answers given by ChatGPT is a serious problem – the asker is (should be) coming to KudoZ because the obvious answer isn't "out there." The problem is even greater because many of these incorrect answers will be added to the glossary.
AI proposed terms are added to the glossary by askers. If an asker selects an AI-generated answer as the most helpful (i.e. because it was the answer that helped them to find the right translation for their project) and adds it to the glossary this is no different than when the asker adds any other term from any other answerer. If the answer is, as you say, incorrect, then the asker may not select it as the most helpful. In other words, having an answer posted by AI makes no difference in terms of glossary expansion (it would if the AI was responsible for adding the term to the glossary though).
And no response has been made regarding the stark reduction of users' ability to improve their search rankings.
Directory ranking is improved by earning KudoZ points. KudoZ points are earned by proposing useful KudoZ answers (useful for askers). If AI-generated answers are an "aberration", "gibberish", or "rubbish" (just to quote a few...), then I guess we, humans, have nothing to worry about. In any case, points "earned" by the AI have no effect over directory ranking since ChatGPT's profile is not even listed there.
Lucia
| | | | Becca Resnik
United States
Local time: 19:09
Member
German to English
+ ...
| Two responses | Aug 23, 2023 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: Becca Resnik wrote:
The issue is how the feature affects KudoZ as a whole. The selection of incorrect and unnatural answers given by ChatGPT is a serious problem – the asker is (should be) coming to KudoZ because the obvious answer isn't "out there." The problem is even greater because many of these incorrect answers will be added to the glossary. AI proposed terms are added to the glossary by askers. If an asker selects an AI-generated answer as the most helpful (i.e. because it was the answer that helped them to find the right translation for their project) and adds it to the glossary this is no different than when the asker adds any other term from any other answerer. If the answer is, as you say, incorrect, then the asker may not select it as the most helpful. In other words, having an answer posted by AI makes no difference in terms of glossary expansion (it would if the AI was responsible for adding the term to the glossary though). Lucia
My point has been missed. This concept is fundamentally flawed, as shown by the KudoZ answer selected by our colleague earlier in the thread. The answer she selected is ungrammatical and makes no semantic sense. So the answer was wrong, and the asker selected it as the right answer (and as another user pointed out, even the asker corrected ChatGPT's output). This is just one issue of many: ChatGPT does not necessarily write naturally, and non-native speakers do not have the ability to evaluate this. At least before, you could see whether the person answering was a native speaker. In any case, the root of the issue is that ChatGPT is famous for giving objectively wrong information – there are umpteen examples out there – and yet many people are trusting it. Everything surrounding that has no business entering the world of KudoZ.
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: Becca Resnik wrote:
And no response has been made regarding the stark reduction of users' ability to improve their search rankings. Directory ranking is improved by earning KudoZ points. KudoZ points are earned by proposing useful KudoZ answers (useful for askers). If AI-generated answers are an "aberration", "gibberish", or "rubbish" (just to quote a few...), then I guess we, humans, have nothing to worry about. In any case, points "earned" by the AI have no effect over directory ranking since ChatGPT's profile is not even listed there. Lucia
Again, my point has been missed. I did not say anything about ChatGPT being ranked – I said users are losing this ability. Maybe I need to explain it a different way: 10 askers post KudoZ questions. 8 of them choose to request ChatGPT answers, which of course are instantaneously posted. Humans now no longer have 10 opportunities to gain points. It's not unreasonable to say for this example that 6 askers choose the instantaneous ChatGPT answer (either because they blindly accepted it or because ChatGPT simply got there first) – I refer to my response above. Now where there were 10 opportunities, there are only 4. I know that for users of certain language pairs, there is already the complaint that few questions are posted in the first place.
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| Flawed argument | Aug 23, 2023 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote (with my emphasis):
Directory ranking is improved by earning KudoZ points. KudoZ points are earned by proposing useful KudoZ answers (useful for askers). If AI-generated answers are an "aberration", "gibberish", or "rubbish" (just to quote a few...), then I guess we, humans, have nothing to worry about. In any case, points "earned" by the AI have no effect over directory ranking since ChatGPT's profile is not even listed there.
Lucia
In many language pairs and/or fields, the ranking of any 'human' translator is critically dependent on just a tiny number of Kudoz points won for oneself or lost to a human colleague.
ALL points awarded to the AI bot, regardless of the quality/usefulness/intelligibility of the bot's answer, are points that are no longer available to any human translator - and hence their ranking cannot improve even if they have provided a first-class answer.
Consequently, contrary to Lucia's assertion highlighted above, points "earned" by the AI most certainly CAN HAVE AN EFFECT over directory ranking, simply because all points grabbed by the bot are effectively 'siphoned out' of the limited reservoir of points that could otherwise be earned by us humans to improve our ratings in 'competition' with our human peers.
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ProZ should be taking a public stand to support human translators by highlighting the advantages of human translation, rather than help normalise the view that MT and AI are good enough.
I guess the reason why everyone here is being ignored is that the Facebook group is what matters most to ProZ.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 01:09
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
GPT responses need an alert that they are AI generated proposals also in the old (BETTER!) UI.
Still, this bot is NOT MEANT to do TRANSLATION.
As you will have noticed, in many cases it suggests rubbish
and when asked directly, the opposite of what it did here.
I would really like to know Proz's motivation for this initiative,
given the many voices against this decision,
and why you are not taking them seriously.
... See more GPT responses need an alert that they are AI generated proposals also in the old (BETTER!) UI.
Still, this bot is NOT MEANT to do TRANSLATION.
As you will have noticed, in many cases it suggests rubbish
and when asked directly, the opposite of what it did here.
I would really like to know Proz's motivation for this initiative,
given the many voices against this decision,
and why you are not taking them seriously.
[Bearbeitet am 2023-08-23 21:40 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A matter of choice | Aug 24, 2023 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
The possibility of generating KudoZ answers using AI technology has been thought of as a supporting feature. It has a complementary role, but still optional --you use it or you don’t, your choice.
Those who choose not to take part in poisoning the well may still wish to drink from it.
Or is the "choice" you're referring to the choice whether to go on using (and contributing to) KudoZ, or not?
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Ice Scream wrote:
I guess the reason why everyone here is being ignored is that the Facebook group is what matters most to ProZ.
Facebook? What's that?
| | | | | Testing results | Aug 24, 2023 |
In another thread a few weeks ago, Lucia referred to a testing phase for the AI/KudoZ interface.
As a paying member of ProZ for fifteen years, I would like to know what the results were. More specifically:
- How many people were involved in the testing phase? What were their characteristics? (e.g
... See more In another thread a few weeks ago, Lucia referred to a testing phase for the AI/KudoZ interface.
As a paying member of ProZ for fifteen years, I would like to know what the results were. More specifically:
- How many people were involved in the testing phase? What were their characteristics? (e.g. ProZ members or not; IT literate or not; experienced translators or not)
- What were the main advantages reported by the testers? What were the main drawbacks?
- In the three pages of discussion on this thread, the response to this innovation has been overwhelmingly negative. Did your testers feel the same, or did they have a more positive reaction?
- How are you planning to modify the interface, based on the findings of your testing?
Let me reiterate that I am not opposed to this new technology. I use ChatGPT myself on a regular basis. I just don't think KudoZ is the right place for it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alison MacG
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:09
German to English
+ ...
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
The possibility of generating KudoZ answers using AI technology has been thought of as a supporting feature. It has a complementary role, but still optional --you use it or you don’t, your choice.
But this is a choice offered only to the asker.
Could you please add a new option to those already offered for customising the KudoZ question list page:
Show questions that may offend
Show questions from homework or test translations
Show questions from non-translators
Show questions directed to those who meet certain criteria
Show glossary-building terms
Only COVID-19 questions.
Show questions that include an AI-generated answer
so that I can uncheck the box? I would of course require this option to be added to the old interface. If the KudoZ platform is going to become polluted by AI-generated content, I would really like to be given the option not to see it.
Also, could you please offer some comment on the following point already raised by many?
Surely ChatGPT is something an asker should use BEFORE resorting to KudoZ. The site rules used to state:
2.1 (Guideline) "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought."
and currently state:
2.9 Guidelines: "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help after having searched the KudoZ term search and other resources. When asking a question, sufficient context should be provided.
Adding AI technology to KudoZ represents a fundamental change to its concept. Are you going to change this statement on one of the landing pages?
Live term translations from professional translators: KudoZ™
KudoZ™ provides professional translators, and others, with a way to solicit and share translation help on terms that are too new or specialized to appear in most glossaries or dictionaries. A point system adds enjoyment and rewards participating translators with improved directory position in their fields of expertise.
I do not believe that those professional translators you hope and expect to help others by translating so-called tough terms will be the type of translators interested in "interacting" or "collaborating" with ChatGPT in KudoZ unless the entire format and rules of KudoZ are changed. Things like the discussion area, Note to answerer and even peer comments are rendered meaningless with ChatGPT involved.
Why not offer access to ChatGPT as a separate tool, as a companion to KudoZ, rather than incorporating it into KudoZ? Compare the approach taken by Quora, with the launch of POE.
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