| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | KudoZ... illness or addiction? Thread poster: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
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\"Game\"? You don\'t contend that askers do it for fun, do you? (Possibly tha answerers).
Askers are often in dire need of help. Can one call that a game. I don\'t think so\".
Well, Mats, I did put it in inverted commas...
It was a game for me, but now I can\'t stand the obnoxiuos competition which has ruined the whole exercise. People refresh the questions page every 20 seconds to be able to answer immediately. It shoudn\'t be a competition... See more \"Game\"? You don\'t contend that askers do it for fun, do you? (Possibly tha answerers).
Askers are often in dire need of help. Can one call that a game. I don\'t think so\".
Well, Mats, I did put it in inverted commas...
It was a game for me, but now I can\'t stand the obnoxiuos competition which has ruined the whole exercise. People refresh the questions page every 20 seconds to be able to answer immediately. It shoudn\'t be a competition, it should be a choral effort to help \"colleagues\" in trouble. I don\'t buy the \"I do it because I like to help the others\" or \"I like researching so much\". Sorry, but I\'d rather be cooking! That\'s creative. I do it all the time and I never get bored with it! And yes, I do have 4 small kids and a wife to cook for.
But why do collegues desire to be top of the ranks? If it\'s not visibility, what is it? Showing off? I\'m better then you syndrome? I\'m the best?
I agree that Kudoz bring alliances and give you the possibility to get to know other people. I agree that it\'s challenging and stimulating, but after you have collected 5000 points and 20,000 BrowniZ, why on earth some people still carry on? Surely, they must be \"stimulated\" enough!
Giovanni
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| | | | | I don't buy your version of Kudoz either | May 5, 2002 |
where is the \"obnoxious\" competition you are talking about? I see a subtext here, but I am not sure what it is. And why should we absolutely share your views? What bothers me is that you are saying, in so many words that those who like Kudoz are somewhat childish and slightly backwards and exceedingly competitive. Not true. I agree that Kudoz are not a guarantee of being a good translator (you could be an excellent terminologist but a bad translator) to respond to Erika, but, as I said, whe... See more where is the \"obnoxious\" competition you are talking about? I see a subtext here, but I am not sure what it is. And why should we absolutely share your views? What bothers me is that you are saying, in so many words that those who like Kudoz are somewhat childish and slightly backwards and exceedingly competitive. Not true. I agree that Kudoz are not a guarantee of being a good translator (you could be an excellent terminologist but a bad translator) to respond to Erika, but, as I said, when I see a well-researched answer I go check the profile. And I also check the profile of people who are too combative, and petulant and think they know everything: I try to stay away from those translators who might indeed be very good, but would be hard to work with.
Again, Kudoz are a very good indicator. It is easier to judge a translators with the added indicator of Kudoz, than just on the basis of his/her profile or CV.
And as to cooking, I have _had_ to do it days in and days out for so long (I am 53) that I would gladly eat sandwiches (especially if prepared by others) the rest of my life. Of course cooking is creative and fun and what not.
ciao
paola l m
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\"where is the \"obnoxious\" competition you are talking about? I see a subtext here, but I am not sure what it is. And why should we absolutely share your views? What bothers me is that you are saying, in so many words that those who like Kudoz are somewhat childish and slightly backwards and exceedingly competitive\".
Paola, You don\'t \"have\" to share my views... I\'m not imposing my views on anybody, we are just debating something. Or have I missed something?
... See more \"where is the \"obnoxious\" competition you are talking about? I see a subtext here, but I am not sure what it is. And why should we absolutely share your views? What bothers me is that you are saying, in so many words that those who like Kudoz are somewhat childish and slightly backwards and exceedingly competitive\".
Paola, You don\'t \"have\" to share my views... I\'m not imposing my views on anybody, we are just debating something. Or have I missed something?
Obnoxious... well, since you started working for... sorry I can\'t remember the name of the agency, there have been a few unpleasant exchanges between \"competitive\" people. Maybe you missed that. But that\'s normal. I\'m just saying I don\'t like it. This may not be true to a certain extent for the Italian subcommunity, but I know that other communities are less pleasant to be in. Also, I\'m not saying at all that people who like Kudoz are childish. This is your interpretation of my words. I was only trying to understand why people get so addicted AND carry on being addicted. Why? This is not a personal attack on anybody. I\'m surprised you took it personally. I\'ve done my share of \"Kudozing\" myself and now I find it boring. I\'ve also said that I understand why people find it challenging and stimulating. But for such a long time? What\'s the real reason behind it? I\'ll go back to my cooking and my kids now... it\'s Sunday after all!
Giovanni
P.S. \"I try to stay away from those translators who might indeed be very good, but would be hard to work with\".
Oops... I think I\'m on your black list, now! 
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| | | | | Giovanni, I did not take it personally | May 5, 2002 |
I can get heated too during the discussion. I thought your tone was just a bit \"blasé\" about the Kudozers.
Some of the exchanges you mention in our community, were unpleasant, but they did not engender a full scale war.
What I said elsewhere is that there are flamewars and mudslinging also in mailinglists without points, without terminology involved.
It\'s the nature of the beast (us humans) and of the medium (the close/remote nature of the net).
<... See more I can get heated too during the discussion. I thought your tone was just a bit \"blasé\" about the Kudozers.
Some of the exchanges you mention in our community, were unpleasant, but they did not engender a full scale war.
What I said elsewhere is that there are flamewars and mudslinging also in mailinglists without points, without terminology involved.
It\'s the nature of the beast (us humans) and of the medium (the close/remote nature of the net).
take care and you are absolutely not on my black list, assuming I have one. But you know what I mean, I suppose.
paola
(who has to go do her food shopping, alack and alas!)
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Paola, you know me... I try never to offend people. You are probably right though... maybe some of my comments were a bit blasé.
\"Some of the exchanges you mention in our community, were unpleasant, but they did not engender a full scale war\".
That\'s because some of the parties, intelligently, refrained from engaging in further confrontations. But that\'s in the past.
G
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 11:23
German to English
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| Don't worry, Ralf | May 5, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-05-05 08:22, Lemster wrote:
Sven, maybe I\'m missing something here... but where\'s the \"vile personal attack\" you\'re referring to?
Relax... have a nice Sunday.
Don\'t worry, Ralf. Someone\'s off his rocker, as is usual for that individual.
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 11:23
German to English
+ ...
| Getting one's facts straight | May 5, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-05-05 07:12, sven wrote:
Dear Werner,
Please try to avoid using this Forum for your vile personal attacks!
Don’t bother about sending your insults to me by email! Any email from you will be deleted automatically.
Thanking you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.
Sven.
1. I do not commun... See more Quote:
On 2002-05-05 07:12, sven wrote:
Dear Werner,
Please try to avoid using this Forum for your vile personal attacks!
Don’t bother about sending your insults to me by email! Any email from you will be deleted automatically.
Thanking you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.
Sven.
1. I do not communicate with Sven at all (I don\'t communicate with people that repeatedly insult and attack other ProZ members in the worst possible ways (e.g., calling them \"idiots\" or referring to their answers as \"bullsh..\" on a PUBLIC site is outrageous!)
2. Sven keeps sending me harassing e-mails, which I ignore.
3. I call on ProZ staff to remove Sven once and for all. This behaviour cannot be tolerated anymore. How many more complaints does it take (by me, other members AND ProZ moderators)???? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jacek Krankowski (X) 
English to Polish
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| Isn't sitting in front of the computer "addictive" in the first place? | May 5, 2002 |
Look at the Forums, all those chat lists, Web surfing, computer games. Giovanni, have you not noticed that we live in the electronic age? Wait till your kids grow up... It is not a childhood disease anymore.
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Erika Pavelka (X)
Local time: 11:23
French to English
| Economically worthwhile for some maybe... | May 5, 2002 |
Quote:
As long as a large number of purchasers consider a high KudoZ score to be indicative of expertise and a valid reason for offering the holder of the high score well paid jobs it is economically worth while to maintain a high KudoZ score.
I find this ridiculous. I don\'t mind offering answers to KudoZ questions, but I refuse to sit at the computer 24 hours a day waiting for people to ask questions ... See more Quote:
As long as a large number of purchasers consider a high KudoZ score to be indicative of expertise and a valid reason for offering the holder of the high score well paid jobs it is economically worth while to maintain a high KudoZ score.
I find this ridiculous. I don\'t mind offering answers to KudoZ questions, but I refuse to sit at the computer 24 hours a day waiting for people to ask questions so I can be the first one to answer and hope to get points. All this just to be higher up on the list so an outsourcer looking for a professional can see my name first. There\'s the Platinum membership for that, you know.
I think it\'s time to change the sorting criteria of the Search for a Pro results from highest KudoZ to alphabetical order.
Erika
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| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 11:23
German to English
+ ...
Quote:
On 2002-05-05 22:27, epavelka wrote:
Quote:
As long as a large number of purchasers consider a high KudoZ score to be indicative of expertise and a valid reason for offering the holder of the high score well paid jobs it is economically worth while to maintain a high KudoZ score.
I find this ridiculous. I don\'t mind offering answer
... See more Quote:
On 2002-05-05 22:27, epavelka wrote:
Quote:
As long as a large number of purchasers consider a high KudoZ score to be indicative of expertise and a valid reason for offering the holder of the high score well paid jobs it is economically worth while to maintain a high KudoZ score.
I find this ridiculous. I don\'t mind offering answers to KudoZ questions, but I refuse to sit at the computer 24 hours a day waiting for people to ask questions so I can be the first one to answer and hope to get points. All this just to be higher up on the list so an outsourcer looking for a professional can see my name first. There\'s the Platinum membership for that, you know.
I think it\'s time to change the sorting criteria of the Search for a Pro results from highest KudoZ to alphabetical order.
Erika
While I admit that KudoZ points may allow for some conclusions about the skills of a translator, it is also true that these points do not paint a complete picture. Translating a single term or even a phrase (mostly by doing the \"grunt work\" that the asker should have done in the first place, e.g., by doing a thorough search of Google or other Internet resources) does not say anything about the qualifications of such a person - translating an entire document from scratch and delivering the translation in a professional format on time are factors that cannot be assessed properly solely on the basis of KudoZ points (nor in combination with other information such as CVs, profiles, etc.).
I am all for helping out colleagues, but the chase for points should not become the overriding theme (which seems to be the case right now - this becomes very clear from comments found in the KudoZ pages (\"you stole my KudoZ\", \"you idiot\", etc.)).
To summarize:
KudoZ is different things to different people: for some it is a channel to offer help to colleagues; to others, it is, apparently, a competitive game with addictive qualities (and once addicted, these people won\'t stop at anything ). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 17:23
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...
In memoriam | You forgot the majority, Werner. | May 6, 2002 |
Dear Werner
You said:
\"KudoZ is different things to different people: for some it is a channel to offer help to colleagues; to others, it is, apparently, a competitive game with addictive qualities (and once addicted, these people won\'t stop at anything ).\"
You forgot the majority: All of us who enjoy KudoZ as an intellectual challenge, a way to learn, a way to sharpen our perceptio... See more Dear Werner
You said:
\"KudoZ is different things to different people: for some it is a channel to offer help to colleagues; to others, it is, apparently, a competitive game with addictive qualities (and once addicted, these people won\'t stop at anything ).\"
You forgot the majority: All of us who enjoy KudoZ as an intellectual challenge, a way to learn, a way to sharpen our perception (an asset in translation) and enlarge our number of Internet sources of knowledge.
I have increased my knowledge enormously and I have a much sharper eye than pre-KudoZ!
The spinoffs:
Translators in need get help.
Colleagues can, just as I do, learn from reviewing the Qs and As.
By participating in the KudoZ arena I have learnt a lot about on-line and off-line sources of knowledge.
I get a sort of \'Thank you!\' for my assistance.
I get ONE way of showing SOME linguistic expertise (if nothing else: My ability to find the answer to tricky questions, which is no disadvantage to a translator - and his/her client)
Mats ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Answer to Ralph: | May 6, 2002 |
Dear Ralph,
I do consider the following writing by Werner (all from this thread) to be “vile personal attacks”:
”…., clearly showing signs of a nervous breakdown and of being an addict. Call 1-800-NO-KUDOZ for a free brochure on how to lick this type of addiction.”
” Don\'t worry, Ralf. Someone\'s off his rocker, as is usual for that individual.”
”I call on ProZ staff to remove Sven once and for a... See more Dear Ralph,
I do consider the following writing by Werner (all from this thread) to be “vile personal attacks”:
”…., clearly showing signs of a nervous breakdown and of being an addict. Call 1-800-NO-KUDOZ for a free brochure on how to lick this type of addiction.”
” Don\'t worry, Ralf. Someone\'s off his rocker, as is usual for that individual.”
”I call on ProZ staff to remove Sven once and for all. This behaviour cannot be tolerated anymore. How many more complaints does it take (by me, other members AND ProZ moderators)????”
I consider the following to be even worse, as it is an outright lie:
”Sven keeps sending me harassing e-mails, which I ignore.”
I do however believe in Free Speech:
I may disagree with just about everything Werner writes on the Forum, but I respect his right to express his opinion and would never dream of suggesting that he should be censored, or removed.
By quoting out of context one can completely change the impression given by a quote. The “You stole my KudoZ.” was quoted out of context. Students of KudoZ history are encouraged to access the friendly exchange between my good friend Mats Wiman and myself by searching the KudoZ archive for “framåtstupa”!
I am of opinion that no term questions should be censored on ProZ and believe I have the right to complain when Werner is squashing questions related to genocide of Boers but leaves questions related to genocide of Jews to be answered.
The KudoZ system has not only provided me with entertainment and mental stimulation; it has also provided me with an efficient tool to improve my income. I am of opinion that I have the right to share this experience with other ProZ members, who may have the need or desire to improve their income. I think I should be permitted to do so without being personally attacked by Werner.
All Werner’s answers to term questions that I have seen and been competent of evaluating have been of highest professional standard. I can but say that I wish Werner would find more time to help to his fellow translators with term questions.
Best regards,
Sven.
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-06 07:08 ] ▲ Collapse
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Maya Jurt
Switzerland
Local time: 17:23
French to German
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| Yeah, and where is the question? | May 6, 2002 |
Squashed, by someone outside the Swedish-English language pair, not a moderator either, but well known to all of us.
I really wonder.
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-06 07:15 ]
| | | | Jacek Krankowski (X)
English to Polish
+ ...
| KudoZ addiction is nothing compared to Formula 1, soccer and other TV obsessions | May 6, 2002 |
I love sports, but I do not watch them on TV because I find this more impersonal than interacting with people on the Internet, including KudoZ.
My grandmother used to say: Life is too short and too beautiful to waste it on peeping at others\' lives. (That was 30 years before the reality show was born.)
I would think that after having watched, say, 100 ball games or 100 car races you would no longer need to be stimulated this way. Would it not be more ... See more I love sports, but I do not watch them on TV because I find this more impersonal than interacting with people on the Internet, including KudoZ.
My grandmother used to say: Life is too short and too beautiful to waste it on peeping at others\' lives. (That was 30 years before the reality show was born.)
I would think that after having watched, say, 100 ball games or 100 car races you would no longer need to be stimulated this way. Would it not be more challenging to take to those sports yourself? Would that not be less B-O-R-I-N-G than playing a couch potato?
I\'d rather be answering KudoZ. Let everyone be free to get their own kick out of the compulsive staring at the screen.
In strictly medical terms, I find the KudoZ addiction less harmful to others than the nicotine, drugs or alcohol addictions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 11:23
German to English
+ ...
| 1-800-NO-KUDOZ is a personal attack??? Have you gone mad? | May 6, 2002 |
Quote:
On 2002-05-06 06:40, sven wrote:
Dear Ralph,
I do consider the following writing by Werner (all from this thread) to be “vile personal attacks”:
”…., clearly showing signs of a nervous breakdown and of being an addict. Call 1-800-NO-KUDOZ for a free brochure on how to lick this type of addiction.”
Where is the \"vile personal attack\... See more Quote:
On 2002-05-06 06:40, sven wrote:
Dear Ralph,
I do consider the following writing by Werner (all from this thread) to be “vile personal attacks”:
”…., clearly showing signs of a nervous breakdown and of being an addict. Call 1-800-NO-KUDOZ for a free brochure on how to lick this type of addiction.”
Where is the \"vile personal attack\" here? Did I mention any names or any group of individuals?
Quote:
” Don\'t worry, Ralf. Someone\'s off his rocker, as is usual for that individual.”
”I call on ProZ staff to remove Sven once and for all. This behaviour cannot be tolerated anymore. How many more complaints does it take (by me, other members AND ProZ moderators)????”
Sorry, Sven, but you are being very dishonest now. Ralf asked you about your reasons for posting that vicious attack of yours, and now you cite examples from my reply to you, not from the original message. Remember, when you posted your attack, my reply had not been posted yet, so that could not have been the trigger. Please stop lying, Sven!
Quote:
I do however believe in Free Speech:
Yet another lie: if you believed in other people\'s freedom to say and do as they pleased, you would not send out harassing e-mails to anyone who, for example, squashes a question.
Some weeks ago, I squashed a question that was racist in nature. Instead of contacting a moderator (to have the question reinstated), you sent an e-mail to me (harassing tone, etc.).
Quote:
I may disagree with just about everything Werner writes on the Forum, but I respect his right to express his opinion and would never dream of suggesting that he should be censored, or removed.
By quoting out of context one can completely change the impression given by a quote. The “You stole my KudoZ.” was quoted out of context. Students of KudoZ history are encouraged to access the friendly exchange between my good friend Mats Wiman and myself by searching the KudoZ archive for “framåtstupa”!
I am of opinion that no term questions should be censored on ProZ and believe I have the right to complain when Werner is squashing questions related to genocide of Boers but leaves questions related to genocide of Jews to be answered.
The KudoZ system has not only provided me with entertainment and mental stimulation; it has also provided me with an efficient tool to improve my income. I am of opinion that I have the right to share this experience with other ProZ members, who may have the need or desire to improve their income. I think I should be permitted to do so without being personally attacked by Werner.
All Werner’s answers to term questions that I have seen and been competent of evaluating have been of highest professional standard. I can but say that I wish Werner would find more time to help to his fellow translators with term questions.
Best regards,
Sven.
After you, Sven, attacked me and lied about me (indicating that I would send you harassing e-mail when, in fact, it is the other way around), I had to come out with the truth. But if you believe that a joke like \"1-800-NO-KUDOZ\" is a \"vile personal attack\", then you, sir, have definitely gone round the bend. My original message was a joke, but the very fact that YOU turned this into a \"vile personal attack\" is proof of everything bad anyone has ever said about this site or KudoZ.
And what is that nonsense and lie (here we go again!) about me squashing questions for all the wrong reasons? Unlike yourself, I am not addicted to KudoZ; I don\'t see every single question out there. But when I do see something that I feel should be squashed, I\'ll squash it. I am sure I am missing out on a lot of offensive questions because I don\'t spend 2 hours a day playing KudoZ, as you said.
And I don\'t appreciate receiving harassing e-mails from you! Stop it.
[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-06 13:10 ] ▲ Collapse
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