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Direcciones o Gerencias Regionales
Jul 2, 2020 22:34
3 yrs ago
34 viewers *
Spanish term

Graduado en ingeniería civil y territorial

Spanish to English Tech/Engineering Education / Pedagogy Engineering degree
This diploma is from Spain, specifically the Universidad Politecnica de Madrid. I have translated dozens of engineering diplomas from Spain, but this is the first time I've come across the title "Graduado".

The same client also submitted at the same time his transcript from the same university, but from the Escuela Tecnica Superior de Ingenieros de Caminos, Canales y Puertos, dated 2 years after the diploma above.

In the Spanish education system, is "Graduado" equivalent to a Bachelor's degree?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Degree in Civil and Territorial Engineering.
4 Bachelor's degree in Civil Engineering
4 Bachelor of Science in civil and geotechnical engineering
3 Completion of a university course on civil and infrastructure engineering

Discussion

Marcelo González Jul 7, 2020:
@Neil re: Phil - KudoZ Rule 3.4 "The only acceptable means of commenting on another's answer is by using the peer comment feature."
https://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.4#3.4
neilmac Jul 6, 2020:
@Laura I'm in Spain and I usually associate the term "graduado" with "graduado escolar", which is a basic secondary educational qualification, inferior to a BA degree. In the query context, I see it as a calque of "graduate", in other words, someone who has graduated from university with a degree - but without specifying whether it's a BA, BSC, PhD etc. Call it erring on the side of caution if you like.
neilmac Jul 6, 2020:
@Marcelo I'm not taking phil's comment about "territorial engineering"personally, and I kind of agree with him about the use (and translation) of territorial in general. However, if the university professors decide to call their course "Civil and Territorial Engineering", then who am I to argue, even if they probably did use automatic translation to get there.
philgoddard Jul 3, 2020:
Laura Based on my own researches, I think you may be right about "land use", and you can also say "spatial planning". But the Spanish term is widely translated online as "territorial engineering", which I believe is wrong.
Marcelo González Jul 3, 2020:
Titulo: Graduado en Ingeniería Civil y Territorial "El diseño del título de grado Ingeniería Civil y Territorial realza el hecho de que el efecto último de la ingeniería civil es la transformación y vertebración del territorio mediante la ordenación y organización urbana, y mediante la planificación y ejecución de las obras públicas. No existe ninguna otra rama de la ingeniería tan íntimamente ligada a la función de crear un “territorio construido”,
plena afirmación del ser humano en su intención natural de hacer habitable una naturaleza inclemente y hostil. [...]

El título de Ingeniero Civil y Territorial acentúa especialmente la componente territorial genérica de la ingeniería civil. Tanto las materias que desarrollan las competencias requeridas para la habilitación profesional, como las que corresponden a competencias específicas del título, se orientan
hacia una visión global de las infraestructuras, que son consideradas de forma conjunta, simultánea y coordinada hacia el fin último de la transformación del territorio. Por ello el título desea recoger y destacar su indudable contenido de ingeniería territorial en su propio nombre."
https://www.caminos.upm.es/gradoict/Documentos/MemoRefModRef...
Laura Molinari (asker) Jul 3, 2020:
Definitely not Territorial Engineering I think Phil is just giving his opinion and not critiquing a suggested translation. People disagree on suggested terms all the time in the answerer's comments! And I totally agree. I had already long ago discarded "territorial engineering". My solution thus far is "Civil and Land Use Engineering" as 'territorial' in many contexts refers to land use planning. And I found some backup for this https://oppel.ca/careers/senior-civil-engineer/ What do you all think?
Marcelo González Jul 3, 2020:
@Phil You said you didn't believe there was such a thing as 'territorial engineering'. Is that not a critique or a criticism of Neil's translation? Saying a term doesn't exist seems like a pretty clear criticism to me.
philgoddard Jul 3, 2020:
I don't fully understand your question, but perhaps you didn't understand my post. I'm not critiquing anyone, I'm saying that perhaps "ingeniería territorial" is "spatial planning".
Marcelo González Jul 3, 2020:
@Phil - Is it really appropriate to discuss ... ... in this space translations already suggested? Some site users may disagree, but my understanding of the rules suggests this area is not for critiquing translations. Would it not be more helpful to post a reference in the source language to better understand its meaning?
philgoddard Jul 3, 2020:
We need to work out what ingeniería territorial is I don't believe there's such a thing as territorial engineering. Here, I think the course title is a mistranslation from French, but it's subsequently referred to as "spatial planning":
http://heig-vd.ch/en/education/masters-degree-program/territ...

Proposed translations

+1
9 hrs
Selected

Degree in Civil and Territorial Engineering.

"Degree" is a catch-all term for university level qualifications.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2020-07-03 09:02:38 GMT)
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Unless the client specifies whether it is bachelors degree or equivalent, I wouldn't insert that detail off the top of my head willy-nilly. However, were I to do so, Wikipedia provides this handy list for reference:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Academic_degrees

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Note added at 3 days 20 hrs (2020-07-06 19:31:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

FWIW, a quick online search for “territorial engineering” gets 27,000 hits, and they can’t all be nonsense.
Example sentence:

I have graduated with a degree in Civil and Territorial Engineering and have also completed my Masters ...

Reference:

http://www.upm.es/internacional/Students/StudiesDegrees/OfficialUndergraduateDegrees/Relationed%20Articles?fmt=detail&prefmt=articulo&id=9bd

https://www.altillo.com/en/universities/spain/Polytechnical_University_of_Madrid.asp

Peer comment(s):
agree David Hollywood : ok Neil but I would say Bachelor's etc. and deleting mine as you got it and drop the full stop :)
41 mins
I wouldn't bother with BA/BSc without further info from the client. A degree is a degree.
neutral philgoddard : Territorial in Spanish rarely translates as territorial in English. There's no such thing as territorial engineering as far as I can see.
5 hrs
I hear you. In Spain they love calling things "engineering" that make you do a double take. Ditto "técnico", where everyone and his dog is a technician of some kind...
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I decided the best option was to keep it general and not specify what kind of Degree, but I did stick with 'Territorial' despite the one school in France using that English title. It's meaningless in English. I did use 'Land Use' and the client accepted that as a good description of their degree. By no means calling it an 'official' translation. Thank you all for the healthy debate!"
27 mins

Completion of a university course on civil and infrastructure engineering

I have pasted the Real Academia Española's dictionary definition of "graduado" into the first online references box.
It defines, in Spanish, a university title awarded to a student who has successfully completed a tertiary education course. As to what title level, it is unclear to me.
I hope this helps.
Reference:

https://dpej.rae.es/lema/graduado

Peer comment(s):
neutral Marcelo González : 'Course' is not generally understood as being the same as a (degree) 'program' in the US. I wonder if it might be the same in Canada (where the asker is from).
15 hrs
Good point. I based my translation into English according to the Real Academia Española's dictionary definition. A university degree is awarded after a 3-year course, 4-year course, 5-year course (Master's degree), etc. It is difficult to state.
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

Bachelor's degree in Civil Engineering

Combining Marcelo's clarification of 'Bachelor's and neilmac's "degree" to cover the level indeed achieved but not specify "of Arts/Science", as that indicates a specific type/set of coursework. I would imagine it's a Bachelor of Science-type degree, but wouldn't want to state it without being sure.
Peer comment(s):
neutral neilmac : I see nothing in the source text that tells me it's a Bachelors degree...
3 days 9 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Bachelor of Science in civil and geotechnical engineering

graduado = someone who finishes an undergraduate program

Search Results
Web results

Geotechnical Engineering | Civil Engineering
Geotechnical Engineering deals with the study of soil behavior, and the design and analysis of natural and man-made soil structures. Many constructions are ...
https://civil.columbia.edu/geotechnical-engineering

"geotechnical engineering"
About 168,000 results (0.46 seconds)
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00mDEFutjHh5H1QAhHc...

Another option might be "Bachelor's degree in ..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2020-07-03 13:21:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As for my choice of 'geotechnical engineering,' this apoears to be the prestige variant in this context, rather than 'ground engineering,' which may also be an option.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-07-03 13:47:50 GMT)
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In this context, if specifying which type of bachelor's degree it would be, 'Bachelor of Science' or 'Bachelor of Engineering in ...' would be the obvious choices.

That said, as I also suggested at the bottom of my original proposal, 'Bachelor's degree in ... ' may also be an option.

Since there appears to be reason to believe that this is an undergraduate degree, making this clear may be preferible to translating it as 'Degree in ...'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2020-07-03 16:25:10 GMT)
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Hi Laura,

You may be right about 'land use engineering' being part of an appropriate translation in this context, as 'geotechnical engineering' may be have a different, more geologically-oriented, focus that what 'territorial' seems to imply in the reference that I have just cited in the Discussion area.

My point about Phil was in relation to Neil's suggestion, which should not be criticized or called into question in Discussion. This is my interpretation of the KudoZ rules, which state that reactions such as neutrals and such should be posted in the comment section.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : You don't say how you arrive at "geotechnical", which is "geotécnica".
13 hrs
Geotechnical engineering appears to be the preferred term in this context. Ground engineering may also be an option, but geotechnical may be the prestige variant here.
Something went wrong...
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