| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | New DVX prices... Thread poster: Grzegorz Gryc
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Hi
Take a look on http://www.atril.com
Déjà Vu X Standard - 250 euros (before 490 euros)
Déjà Vu X Professional - 660 euros (before 990 euros)
I was waiting so long for this kind of aggressive move against the competitors (respectively, 50% and 33% off) but 5 days after the Christmas sales (25% off) it seems somehow indecent.
Cheers
GG
| | | | QUOI 
Chinese to English
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| frankly speaking... | Jan 19, 2010 |
it's filthy. I bought the standard with 10% off (within demo period) and two weeks later 25% Christmas sale came along; paid the difference to upgrade with 25% off, happy as Larry. Now less than a week later, this...
Well, a lesson learned. Who knows, perhaps Atril will offer 50% off next month, or 60% off by next Christmas. Not a wise marketing strategy, I am afraid, with consecutive significant discount at this frequency. It simply conditions potential buyers to wait for a better ... See more it's filthy. I bought the standard with 10% off (within demo period) and two weeks later 25% Christmas sale came along; paid the difference to upgrade with 25% off, happy as Larry. Now less than a week later, this...
Well, a lesson learned. Who knows, perhaps Atril will offer 50% off next month, or 60% off by next Christmas. Not a wise marketing strategy, I am afraid, with consecutive significant discount at this frequency. It simply conditions potential buyers to wait for a better deal and some may simply wait...
Grzegorz Gryc wrote: Hi Take a look on http://www.atril.com Déjà Vu X Standard - 250 euros (before 490 euros) Déjà Vu X Professional - 660 euros (before 990 euros) I was waiting so long for this kind of aggressive move against the competitors (respectively, 50% and 33% off) but 5 days after the Christmas sales (25% off) it seems somehow indecent. Cheers GG ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Short in cash? | Jan 20, 2010 |
Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I was waiting so long for this kind of aggressive move against the competitors (respectively, 50% and 33% off) but 5 days after the Christmas sales (25% off) it seems somehow indecent.
Maybe they are short in cash now and not six months ago...
| | | | Grzegorz Gryc
Local time: 06:57
French to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER | Seriously speaking... | Jan 20, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I was waiting so long for this kind of aggressive move against the competitors (respectively, 50% and 33% off) but 5 days after the Christmas sales (25% off) it seems somehow indecent. Maybe they are short in cash now and not six months ago...
Well.
Even if it's not true (I hope...), the manner they did it makes me think about a SDLX deal I made in 2003.
I never expected one day I could see someting like this for DVX.
BTW, I was just about to upgrade my Pro to Workgroup but I'm still waiting a huge payment...
Seriously speaking, I think it's a good strategic decision.
Atril has now:
- DVX Std as a competitor for "low priced" CAT tools like Wordfast, Swordfish etc.
- DVX Pro as a direct competitor for "standard" CAT tools like Trados FL, MemoQ Pro etc.
As I always said, DVX Std was overpriced, DVX Pro was uncompetitive.
Now, the price relations are logical.
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2010-01-20 23:47 GMT]
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Grzegorz Gryc
Local time: 06:57
French to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER | True capital | Jan 21, 2010 |
words@large wrote:
it's filthy. I bought the standard with 10% off (within demo period)
Simply, no chance.
It happens.
But it you follow the market, it's almost obvious DVX is on sales during Christmas.
and two weeks later 25% Christmas sale came along; paid the difference to upgrade with 25% off, happy as Larry. Now less than a week later, this...
Simply, no comments.
Well, a lesson learned. Who knows, perhaps Atril will offer 50% off next month, or 60% off by next Christmas. Not a wise marketing strategy, I am afraid, with consecutive significant discount at this frequency. It simply conditions potential buyers to wait for a better deal and some may simply wait...
Me too, I think it was a very bad move.
Sometimes I think Atril doesn't realize his true capital is the community of DV users and developpers and a tactics like this is simply destructive.
Cheers
GG
| | | | | Focus on the ROI! | Jan 22, 2010 |
words@large wrote:
I bought the standard with 10% off (within demo period) and two weeks later 25% Christmas sale came along; paid the difference to upgrade with 25% off, happy as Larry. Now less than a week later, this...
DVX's absolute price is pretty immaterial since, unlike many other tools, it will soon (often from the very first job) start saving you time and money. New builds are free. Many users haven't paid anything extra since they first purchased DVX when it came out in 2003 and often say it was the best investment they ever made.
[Edited at 2010-01-22 08:02 GMT]
| | | | Herbert Eppel
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:57
German to English
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David hit the nail on the head!
| | | | QUOI
Chinese to English
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| ROI looks pretty lousy… in short term and in anyone’s language | Jan 22, 2010 |
Any investment whose market price drops by 30% within a month is at least annoying to the investor. Wouldn’t you be, to say the least, a little bit annoyed if your local Citroen dealer sold you a brand new C3 at full price and then offers a 1/3 discount on the same model a few weeks later? Yes, I hear you, you are talking about value not price. I have nothing against DVX but I think I am allowed to have a rant from time to time.
David Turner wrote:
Focus on the ROI!
DVX's absolute price is pretty immaterial since, unlike many other tools, it will soon (often from the very first job) start saving you time and money. New builds are free. Many users haven't paid anything extra since they first purchased DVX when it came out in 2003 and often say it was the best investment they ever made.
[Edited at 2010-01-22 08:02 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-01-22 09:54 GMT]
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words@large wrote:
I think I am allowed to have a rant from time to time
... and I've no idea what the thinking was behind these new price schemes.
Perhaps the pre-Christmas "sales" offer was disappointing and they decided to cut prices more aggressively. In that case, it might have been more diplomatic for them to contact the few takers at the old price and give them the benefit of the new price.
If you really feel disgruntled, I would contact Atril directly and ask whether, given the circumstances, you couldn't do this. They're usually pretty approachable.
| | | | Grzegorz Gryc
Local time: 06:57
French to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER | Basic logic... Atril public relations... | Jan 22, 2010 |
David Turner wrote: words@large wrote:
I think I am allowed to have a rant from time to time ... and I've no idea what the thinking was behind these new price schemes.
Sometimes I simply think they don't think at all when they fix the prices.
E.g.
Go to the the DVX official distributor site i.e. http://www.powerling.com.
Select France.
Select DVX Standard and buy it (250 euro).
When you receive the dongle, upgrade Std to Workgroup (1860 euro).
The total is 2110 euro.
A direct DVX Workgroup purchase is 2250 euro.
You save 140 euro.
The same operation with DVX Std to Pro upgrade will cost you 250 + 490 = 740 euro i.e. 80 euro more than the direct DVX Pro purchase.
It's very basic as arithmetics but I don't understand this logic.
And now, we have another potential problem.
If Atril simply aligns the Workgroup upgrade prices to the new schema, the "old" customers who decide to upgrade now will pay 330 euro more than in the previous price schema,
Of course, they may be angry too.
I don't mention three versions of Atril webpage announcing the new prices.
In one day.
The first, with a grid (awful), probably and Excel screenshot, aligned to left and damn big, too big for small screens.
The second, the same, without the grid.
Now, the third, almost decent (please, move the bullets a little bit to the right).
Just some reflexion. please...
PS.
A quote from an e-mail of a fellow translator who asked me some help related to his DVX trial:
By the way, what I do not like about the Pro version is the fact that you
can only work with 2 TM, Termbases at a time... and the Workgroup version is
way too expensive. Do you know if they plan on releasing a new version - at
all? Many seem to think that Atril is wrapping up things and will retire...
do you have any further info?
Do you think this kind of question arise without some "help" from Atril?
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2010-01-22 12:02 GMT]
| | | | | That is odd then ... | Jan 23, 2010 |
Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
Select DVX Standard and buy it (250 euro).
When you receive the dongle, upgrade Std to Workgroup (1860 euro).
The total is 2110 euro.
A direct DVX Workgroup purchase is 2250 euro.
You save 140 euro.
The same operation with DVX Std to Pro upgrade will cost you 250 + 490 = 740 euro i.e. 80 euro more than the direct DVX Pro purchase.
... you wouldn't really expect to pay less to upgrade than to buy directly, as seems to be the case with DVX Workgroup (I haven't really studied the figures so I take your word for it).
However, I think there used to be an additional 10% discount if you purchased before the end of the 30-day trial period so that would amount to - 225.50 for a direct purchase of Workgroup.
And if you upgrade, you presumably have to send the old dongle back at your own expense and purchase a new one, complete with shipping and packaging which would add another 80 odd euros, I believe.
| | | | Grzegorz Gryc
Local time: 06:57
French to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER | Incertitude and FUD | Jan 23, 2010 |
David Turner wrote:
... you wouldn't really expect to pay less to upgrade than to buy directly, as seems to be the case with DVX Workgroup (I haven't really studied the figures so I take your word for it).
I have no reason to give you false info
Generally, the problem with DXV is the price policies are unclair.
I.e. we know we can negotiate the prices and Atril often proposes good deals (often upgrades for free) but the TO managers want to know the principles and the total cost of ownership.
This kind of inforation involves the upgrade cycle.
In theory, if you count a long time period (starting from 3 years), DVX is one of the cheapest tools in it's class but in a shorter perspective you must know approximatively the next upgrade date and the upgrade price.
The questions I receive are:
- "when the next DVX version will be released" (yes, this time I know, in theory in 2010, probably Q3 but we remember the legendary 16 months shift for the initial DVX release, so I consider it's still unclair...)
- "how much we will pay for a specific upgrade" (here, no anser, in the worse case I assume 50% like for DV3-DVX upgrade, probably 10% for new ones, maybe for free, but I have no definition of old/new buyer).
Unlike Trados, MemoQ etc., DVX is completely unpredicable here.
So, it's easy to use a FUD tactic against it.
I remember, in 2005, a friendly translation office was looking for a CAT tool.
I showed 'em my CAT TCO calculator which clearly stated DVX was the cheapest tool but they started to ask questions like "what happens if Atril decides to ship new DV in one year, how much will cost the upgrade".
No clair response.
I could argue Atril propose fair conditions but they wanted some tangible info they could not receive.
So, finally, they purchased Trados, SDL Poland proposed 'em a dumping price.
Probably now they paid two times the original license price, far more than for DVX Workgroup (here, no additional costs starting from 2005).
No comments.
BTW.
Now, in a 5 years perspective, I assume:
For Trados FL: 795+ 5x175 = 1670 euro (VAT excluded)
For MemoQ Translator Pro 620 + 5x125 = 1245 euro (VAT excluded).
Street prices (no sales), regular upgrades.
For DVX Pro, you can only guess...
The fact (more than) 5 years ago I paid only the DVX Pro initial price (990 euro) and it was the cheapest tool in my basket has no impact at all just before the upgrade to DVX 8.
A more intellegent communication is crucial here.
I's not sufficient to have a good product.
However, I think there used to be an additional 10% discount if you purchased before the end of the 30-day trial period so that would amount to - 225.50 for a direct purchase of Workgroup.
Well, true, but it's an exceptionl promotional price for prospects.
I don't think and old user like me would be able to claim honestly a trial version
And if you upgrade, you presumably have to send the old dongle back at your own expense and purchase a new one, complete with shipping and packaging which would add another 80 odd euros, I believe.
No. the upgrade codes are shipped by mail
You enter 'em in Help, Upgrade dongle.
Easy, rapid and simple.
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2010-01-23 12:18 GMT]
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Pavel Tsvetkov
Bulgaria
Local time: 07:57
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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Moderator of this forum | Inefficient = Misleading Communication | Jan 26, 2010 |
I agree that Atril need to manage their communication channels better. If there is indeed a good reason for these price drops (other than wrapping up business and milking a dying cow for the last time, then they should state it clearly. After all, their official site has looked (almost) dead for months, maybe years - and now, out of the blue, a significant price drop: that could mean anything from hello... See more I agree that Atril need to manage their communication channels better. If there is indeed a good reason for these price drops (other than wrapping up business and milking a dying cow for the last time, then they should state it clearly. After all, their official site has looked (almost) dead for months, maybe years - and now, out of the blue, a significant price drop: that could mean anything from hello to good-bye!
Daniel Benito in his interview posted here: http://www.powerling.com./?q=uk/interview states that:
We are currently working on a new version of Déjà Vu, once again concentrating on quality and efficiency, in particular with improved QA features and an interface that is more intuitive and therefore easier to learn and to use. We are also very close to releasing our server-based TM storage module, which integrates seamlessly with Déjà Vu but provides a robust and scalable platform for storing large volumes of translations.
That is, of course, good to know. But other important questions arise:
1. When will this new versions be released?
2. How much will it cost?
3. How much will the upgrade cost?
4. Will they retain their current policy of pay-once-get-updates-free or wil they introduce a service fee like MemQ (which would hopefully allow them to bring down prices a bit).
Surely, they could supply answers to these questions even if their new version is still in beta?
Otherwise, it is impossible to know whether the 800+ euro I have to pay for the Pro version (dongle and VAT included) is a good price or not. What if in, say, 6 months, they start selling their new versiona and the current version is given away for free?
I have contacted Atril support with some of these questions/fears and this is the kind of answers I get:
Unfortunately, I do not have any information about this at the moment. I will inquire with my colleagues and tell you more as soon as I can.
I do not, at this time, know when the next version will be released, and the prices for it have not been set yet. A discount will be offered to customers who have previously purchased license of Déjà Vu X, though the precise amount of the discount has not been decided either.
While I do appreciate them spending time on supplying answers to my questions, I would appreciate it if they could be a little less vague and cryptic.
I am reposting my question to Atril here in the hope that their customer services may come across it and provide a proper answer:
You promised me to check with your colleagues about upgrade prices fot the upcoming version (and a possible "grace period" with automatic free upgrades for qualifying customers). And again: WILL THERE BE A NEW VERSION AND WHEN IS IT TO BE EXPECTED? If I am going to pay you 800 EUR for the current version, I must know that my investment is protected: 1) That you have not decided to close business; 2) That if you are indeed developing a new version, the upgrade price will make it worhtwhile to pay for the current version. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | We continue working on Déjà Vu | Jan 26, 2010 |
Hi all,
I can't tell you too much about the new version, the TMServer and all the projects we are working on, but we hope to launch the TMServer and the new version of Déjà Vu before middle of 2010.
- We are NOT going to close business. We are really involved on releasing the new version and finishing the TMServer.
- We are going to launch a new version of Déjà Vu. Unfortunately I do not know the release date, the editions nor the prices.
I will k... See more Hi all,
I can't tell you too much about the new version, the TMServer and all the projects we are working on, but we hope to launch the TMServer and the new version of Déjà Vu before middle of 2010.
- We are NOT going to close business. We are really involved on releasing the new version and finishing the TMServer.
- We are going to launch a new version of Déjà Vu. Unfortunately I do not know the release date, the editions nor the prices.
I will keep you updated!!
Regards, ▲ Collapse
| | | | Grzegorz Gryc
Local time: 06:57
French to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER | Inefficient communication... | Jan 26, 2010 |
Javier Arrizabalaga wrote:
will keep you updated!![/quote]
Javi, the communication is indeed a problem.
This week, I sent two e-mails to Atril.
The first one to the support with a fancy three line tab separated file which crashes MDB import wizard.
A perfectly isolated problem.
No response.
In the second one, to Lorenzo, I try to put you with contact with a postgraduate translation school in order to start DVX classes there (academic licenses, maybe a group buy).
No acknowledgement.
Of course, it's possible my e-mails are lost somewhere in some spam filter but I have an impression you don't care.
I think it's crazy I'm betatesting and giving ideas for other CAT tools but I'm unable to successfully contact the creator of my preferred tool.
This month, I'm distributing 150 free one year MemoQ licenses for my students.
http://en.kilgray.com/?q=node/solutions/academia
Point 2
I would have a similar deal for DVX.
Where are you?
Cheers
GG
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