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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

devant

English translation:

in the presence of

Added to glossary by Silvia Brandon-Pérez
Nov 30, 2007 16:46
16 yrs ago
10 viewers *
French term

devant

French to English Law/Patents Government / Politics
Ces deux rencontres portent sur le projet de XXX, dont l’utilité est reconnue par la Primature devant le Ministre de la Communication...

My first guess would be "before" as with legal expressions "devant la cour", but it seems strange that the PM's office would go before (in the sense of being subject to) one of its own ministries. Could this perhaps mean "on behalf of"?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 in the presence of
5 before
4 through
3 +1 in the presence of
4 with/by the Ministry of Communications
4 whose utility has been acknowledged by the Primature before the Communications Minister
4 in precedence of
3 My penny's worth...
Change log

Dec 1, 2007 11:24: Emanuela Galdelli changed "Term asked" from "devant (here)" to "devant"

Jul 25, 2008 01:57: Silvia Brandon-Pérez Created KOG entry

Discussion

Silvia Brandon-Pérez Dec 4, 2007:
I think Bourth was first... I know we crossed in the answers, but I would not mind if you gave him the points instead.
B D Finch Dec 1, 2007:
Could this just be translated as "to"? Meaning that there was a meeting at the Ministry of Communication at which the PM's office was represented and in the course of which that representative acknowledged ...?
Francis Marche Nov 30, 2007:
"devant" refers to hierarchy and protocol not "before" (time notion) and least of it "in the presence of" (to denote a location/spatial notion).
MatthewLaSon Nov 30, 2007:
Typo: "La Primature a reconnu son utilité devant..."
MatthewLaSon Nov 30, 2007:
Turn the sentence around and use the active voice. "La Primature reconnaît son utilité devant le Ministre de la Communication..." I hope you can see things more clearly now.
Ghyslaine LE NAGARD Nov 30, 2007:
I believe you go it right. "...recognized by the PM's office before the ...."
The suggestions below do not reflect the meaning. "devant" cannot not be replaced by anything else it is the same meaning as "before the court"

Proposed translations

+2
6 mins
French term (edited): devant (here)
Selected

in the presence of

I think the 'before' here just means in the presence; the Primature has acknowledged the use or utility of the project before, or in the presence of , the Ministry of Transport.
Peer comment(s):
agree Assimina Vavoula
2 mins
Thank you, Assimina.
agree Carol Gullidge : as Bourth///great minds indeed!
1 hr
I know; we crossed 'in time' with the same answer. Brilliant minds, etc. Thanks!/Aw shucks, just kidding (blush).
disagree Francis Marche : "in the presence of" would be "PAR-devant" in French//Sorry, "utilité EST reconnue" would be "A ETE" reconnue if meaning were "in the presence of"
6 hrs
In the presence of is synonimous in English to 'before.' I used both of them in my answer, before and in the presence of. You testify before the Court, in its presence.
agree MatthewLaSon : Absolutely! I would prefer to say "before"...but your interpretation is indeed correct. By the way, isn't this the Communications Minister we are talking about here?
3 days 8 hrs
Thank you, Matthew; it is the Minister/ my mistake.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks. I'm not sure who won this photo-finish with Bourth but I *think* it was you. Thanks to all for your help. "
5 mins
French term (edited): devant (here)

through

through the Minister
Something went wrong...
+1
6 mins
French term (edited): devant (here)

in the presence of

Of course you have the context, so this may be way off, but it could be that the PM recognized the advantages of this particular policy in the presence of the minister (unless misspelt, it IS the minister, not the ministry) who duly took note and possibly revised his own opinions ...
Note from asker:
Thanks for flagging up 'ministre' vs 'ministère', I think reading that a little too quickly in the original might have added to my confusion.
Peer comment(s):
agree Assimina Vavoula
3 mins
agree Carol Gullidge : yes, in front of//(not suggested as an alternative)
1 hr
disagree Francis Marche : "in the presence of" = "PAR-devant "
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): devant (here)

with/by the Ministry of Communications

the Ministry of Communications recognizes the usefulness

I substituted Ministry to Minister since I think it's the institution rather than the person that recognizes :)
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): devant (here)

before

To me before would be the correct translation. Given the context, my understanding of the whole sentence is that the Prime Minister's office recognises the importance of the project but those who are running it are responsible before the Minister of Communication i.e. they are accountable before the Minister of Communication.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs
French term (edited): devant (here)

whose utility has been acknowledged by the Primature before the Communications Minister

Hello,

"Before" (in front of) would be the best translation. I do know, however, that "before" has already been given as an answer, but I'm not in agreement with the answerer's interpretation of the sentence.

The Primature (Office of the Prime Minister) has acknowledged the projet's utility before the Communications Minister. In other words, they told the Communication Minister that this project is indeed a practical project
Something went wrong...
6 hrs
French term (edited): devant (here)

in precedence of

it is a protocol notion NOT a time or spatial ("in the presence of") notion

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2007-11-30 23:59:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This particular "devant" can be found here in English:

Lands never return to the State except in default of heirs, and, in this case, the village can claim them **in precedence of** the State.
socserv.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/laveleye/PrimProp25.htm

By tradition, the Mayor of Winchester stands second only to the Lord Mayor of London **in precedence of** civic heads. The earliest Mayors sometimes held the ...
www.winchester.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/UnitaryAuthoritie...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2007-12-01 00:06:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just one more note to those who read "in the presence of"/"before" in this sentence: how do they reconcile this with the present tense "l'utilité EST reconnue", rather than "a été reconnue"?

If "devant" meant "in the presence of" or "before", the passé composé would be used, NOT the present tense; the present tense denotes a permanent hierchical relationship between the two institutions - PM's Office and Ministry, hence "in precedence of".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2007-12-01 00:25:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"la Primature" is mostly used in French-speaking African countries, which this usage for "devant" would be expected.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2007-12-01 00:25:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry, read "where this usage of DEVANT..."
Note from asker:
Thanks for your informative post; however having carefully read the wider context I think 'in the presence of' is right here even if 'par-devant' would be less ambiguous. The context is a record of a meeting, not a formal listing of protocol, and the present tense is a 'present historic' being used to record a long sequence of events.
Peer comment(s):
neutral MatthewLaSon : I appreciate your contribution, but this just means "before". I have no idea where you are coming from...LOL
3 days 1 hr
Right! Why using different words if they mean the same thing eh! Have a good laugh.
Something went wrong...
17 hrs
French term (edited): devant (here)

My penny's worth...

To my mind, the only logical interpretation is "à travers" ie "by". I think you should read Primature as government: The Government (Primature) recognises the project by, or through, the presence of one of its Ministers.
Note from asker:
Thanks! I think Francis Marche has it, actually, though I'm waiting till I review the whole document before deciding. It's fascinating seeing how much more context would need to be posted (obviously not possible!) to provide information which turns out to be relevant for translating one preposition! With respect to Primauté, it seems clear to me from this broader context that this is a workaround for 'Prime Minister' because during the course of the negotiations there was a change in Prime Minister - I think it's also clear from the broader (non-quoted) context that both parties were present.
Something went wrong...
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